Center members and Center Members only Forum

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Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby ReneK » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:57 am

As I tried to say before, I believe that the forum "brainstorming" should be read-only to everybody but the "center" members. For that matter, I would prefer if it would be renamed to "center members only" or something like that. I was contacted by OberonCore, who essentially agree to that opinion.

There should be other fora on this board, which may be open to everybody who registers himself, but we need a discussion space that is exclusive to center members.

Also, as you correctly state, we need rules for admission of new center members, Alexey being the first applicant since he didn't apply in the initial timeframe.

As we have running costs, I think that an annual membership fee for center members should mandatory (how much?), and center members should vote on applications.

Before we make this a rule or even put this to vote, I'd like center members to voice their opinions here.

Thanks
Rene
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Re: Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby Ivan Denisov » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:14 am

I can not make that "Brainstorming" forum closed, because people not from m-group (maintainers group) wrote here. I have made new Category and made new closed forum "Brainstorming with limited access" for the aim you mean.
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Re: Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby ReneK » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:38 am

Good, thank you. I don't want to be too picklish about names, but I feel that "Brainstorming with limited access" is not quite precise, and I really would prefer somehting like "Center Members Only" or "Maintainers Only" or so. I believe that the discussions which need to take place are far more than just "Brainstorming". Other thoughts on this?
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Re: Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby Ivan Denisov » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:56 am

ReneK wrote:Good, thank you. I don't want to be too picklish about names, but I feel that "Brainstorming with limited access" is not quite precise, and I really would prefer somehting like "Center Members Only" or "Maintainers Only" or so. I believe that the discussions which need to take place are far more than just "Brainstorming". Other thoughts on this?

I am thinking that "center" is not concrete enough. I have renamed topic to "Maintainers Only Brainstorming". I have made it, BUT I am think that it discredit the idea of Brainstorming! The aim of any Brainstorming is to take more ideas, so any limit looks really stupid for me.
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Re: Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby ReneK » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:11 am

Then scratch the "Brainstorming". It is far more than simple brainstorming that is to be done in that forum. "Maintainers Only" is good enough as far as names go.
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Re: Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby OberonCore » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:30 am

Ivan Denisov wrote:
ReneK wrote:...like "Center Members Only" or "Maintainers Only" or so. ...Other thoughts on this?

I am thinking that "center" is not concrete enough. I have renamed topic to "Maintainers Only Brainstorming".
It's not right. We need more neutral term. Maintainers mean developers. But there are Center members which isn't want to be a developer.

"Center Members Only"
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Re: Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby OberonCore » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:46 pm

ReneK wrote:Also, as you correctly state, we need rules for admission of new center members, Alexey being the first applicant since he didn't apply in the initial timeframe.

As we have running costs, I think that an annual membership fee for center members should mandatory (how much?), and center members should vote on applications.
Now we don't know what we are doing at all. There is no tasks and roles assigned to at least one existing member. Hope what anyone understand the difference between (I think-I do) & (Center decide-Center do).

At first, we must learn to state current needs & tasks, define jobs and select its performers from Center members. This information must be expressed in a special document to be clear for all members.

For example,

Temporary Forum. The Center need a temporary forum on temporary hosting connected to http://forum.blackboxframework.org/ which is writable by Center members only & readonly by others.

(Job) Tmp Host Admin duty: deployment of the pbpBB3 on some hosting.
(Job) Tmp Forum Admin duty: setup forum as expressed above and so on.

Tmp Host Admin assigned to: …
Tmp Forum Admin assigned to: …
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Re: Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby Ivan Denisov » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:54 pm

OberonCore wrote:
Ivan Denisov wrote:
ReneK wrote:...like "Center Members Only" or "Maintainers Only" or so. ...Other thoughts on this?

I am thinking that "center" is not concrete enough. I have renamed topic to "Maintainers Only Brainstorming".
It's not right. We need more neutral term. Maintainers mean developers. But there are Center members which isn't want to be a developer.

"Center Members Only"

Ok, let's change the name. That is not so important.

But maintainers does not mean developers. I am not understand what does the "center" means. Let's together give any definition, what do this people do?

The "center" first introduced by Robert C. But then mostly the discussions stopped and people enter into obscure "center".

Rene's list is interesting, but too much to do all at once. My suggested first priorities are:
1=) Agree a new inclusive communication forum.
1=) Set up an authoritative 'Centre'.

We need the forum to discuss who / what the Centre is, and to give it its authority.
One of the Centre's first tasks is to define, or at least endorse, the 'Official' discussion forum.

This is why these priorities cannot be ordered sequentially.

3) Establish, maintain, and give authority to BlackBox Code base 'A'. (I am deliberately giving it a temporary name that is not
associated with any previous code base.)

It would have the following properties:

a) - Based on Oms BlackBox 1.6 rc6, Build 8-9-2008.
b) - Supports exactly the same functionality as 1.6 rc 6; no new functionality.
c) - Includes bug fixes after they are properly reviewed / documented.

One might call it 'Stable', but I worry that that term implies some specific (low) update frequency. The update frequency of 'A' would be driven
by need. When fixes are needed and available they should be applied.


There will be later code bases (I hope), but we should not discuss them now; that discussion should be hosted and concluded by the Centre when it exists.


I believe that Code base A is an urgent and important priority.

Currently Helmut Zinn has reported on (I think) 5 or 6 variants he has. I have my own (rc 6 + whatever fixes on the Oms mail list I thought were
relevant and I copied correctly). There is a variant on Gitorious. There is a variant on Redmine. There may well be 1 or many more on OberonCore - I don't know.
There is rc6 itself.

This confusion must be stopped.


Since Russia is where most BlackBox activity seems to be taking place, it is natural that the Centre might be heavily influenced by Russian members. I have no
problem with that. But if it is in fact OberonCore that becomes the centre we need to ensure that the Oms list members do not feel totally excluded. They should all feel that they could
apply to join the centre, although I am sure Wojtek will not be the only one not to do so in a hurry.


Rene's observation that Oms' decision to abandon BlackBox was a necessary move to trigger active discussion of starting an BB OpenSource project is interesting. Maybe they also need to close this list to encourage us to move to a new forum?
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Re: Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby ReneK » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:57 pm

Sadly, i have to agree. As I stated some time ago, we need a kind of a charta, including our goals, our raison-d'etre, and how we want to achieve those goals. Based on that, we can have statues, including roles. The roles then can be filled with actual people. Rushing forward without knowing where and why is a sure way into oblivion.
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Re: Center members and Center Members only Forum

Postby Ivan Denisov » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:57 pm

OberonCore wrote:(Job) Tmp Host Admin duty: deployment of the pbpBB3 on some hosting.
(Job) Tmp Forum Admin duty: setup forum as expressed above and so on.

Tmp Host Admin assigned to: …
Tmp Forum Admin assigned to: …

Each job comes from discussion and voting. We are discussing the hosting for two weeks, there are time for voting.
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